Curse

BeowulfKamdas · Nov 22, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

i was thinking the same thing but belly smash and this is alright

= constant blind

Hell Marauder · Nov 22, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Flourish is a useless elite, reasons are:
1) its attribute base is strength, so is only cost beneficial to a primary warrior. So forget about using it on primary elementalist, ranger etc. In theory, it could be useful for W/E using attack spells (like aftershock) or W/R using bows, but not likely. Maybe a E/W or N/W will find some use, but isn't there better alternative for that elite spot?
2) For primary warriors, very few attacks have long recharge time (such as belly smash). Most recharge within 10 sec. So useless.
3) there are better energy elites for warriors, such warrior endurance and victor is mine.

Unless new professions in Chap 2 justify its utility, which I believe they may (imagine a warrior/assasin), I really think GW needs to make some change to this so-called "elite" skill, to at least include recharging stances, most of which have very long recharge time.

gou · Nov 22, 2005, 10:50 PM // 22:50

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=65496

Age · Nov 24, 2005, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverstone

Annoying, it doesn't recharge my adrenaline skills >_>

What you are thinking about here is battle rage that is for adrenal skills not energy.

Epinephrine · Nov 24, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

It works ok with the longer recharge skills, as mentioned in that link. Pairing it with any of debilitating shot, determined shot, concussion shot, disrupting shot and/or pin down works; they have 10 (and 15) second recharge times, and while you only get 1 energy back for them you get to essentially double the rate of the skills, while gaining a few energy back to cover the cost of flourish.

Age · Nov 24, 2005, 11:20 PM // 23:20

I am not concerned about the ranger skills only the Warrior energy skills.Sword skills require more energy.

unamed player · Nov 24, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Marauder

Flourish is a useless elite, reasons are:
1) its attribute base is strength, so is only cost beneficial to a primary warrior. So forget about using it on primary elementalist, ranger etc. In theory, it could be useful for W/E using attack spells (like aftershock) or W/R using bows, but not likely. Maybe a E/W or N/W will find some use, but isn't there better alternative for that elite spot?
2) For primary warriors, very few attacks have long recharge time (such as belly smash). Most recharge within 10 sec. So useless.
3) there are better energy elites for warriors, such warrior endurance and victor is mine.

Unless new professions in Chap 2 justify its utility, which I believe they may (imagine a warrior/assasin), I really think GW needs to make some change to this so-called "elite" skill, to at least include recharging stances, most of which have very long recharge time.

Actually you havent really though about why it IS good. First off, i see it as something a sword warrior would want. They have the best damage ENERGY use skills. Now the problem with sword wars is that they run out of energy before ever being able to spam all the energy skills. It would take a good ten seconds to unleash all the skills to begin with so the charge time is perfect. You couple this with a zealous hilt and you pretty much have endless attack damage OVER TIME. Now if you also use tigers fury as a W/R think of how much you can unleash within ten seconds. Take a look at the sword line and see for yourself. Axe wars are all adren..hammer wars too. The only really good damage a sword war can do is with his energy skills. Take along a sever /deep wound and the rest of the skill bar can be used for energy skills. Without rez signet you have 4 (Tigers/Flourish/sever/deep) slots of energy use sword attacks and they ARE quite deadly. Maybe not as much as an eviscerate per say but considering how much more attack you can do within the same time..were talking a decent build. Try it out for yourself.

Order would be Tigers fury followed by sword attack 1/2/3/4/sever/Dwound/flourish

Wash rinse repeat. 4 attack skills are your choice and they all do decent damage.

Age · Nov 24, 2005, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Sorry for posting so much here but I am sword warrior and was wondering about War/Mo?Thanks.

Epinephrine · Nov 25, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I am not concerned about the ranger skills only the Warrior energy skills.Sword skills require more energy.

This is the wrong place for you then, this is comment on the skill, not build discussion. And sword skills don't cost more, concussion shot is 25 energy.

unamed player · Nov 25, 2005, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Well as a W/MO you could get creative with say a smite skill of some sort. Something with a 5 energy use. Banish for example. I havent really though about it as a skill you would want to cross class if you were a war. If your considering flourish for pve id say its overkill. This is a skill you would want to try in PVP to take advantage of every drop of energy you can spare. In pve you have much more time to rest and regain energy etc. Even as a sword war. Basically if you want to run this as a war/mo id suggest looking into the smite line and find skills that would benefit from being "flourished". I'll look into it now, gonna go play a bit. I'll post my findings if any. Good luck on your end.

Epinephrine · Nov 25, 2005, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I am not concerned about the ranger skills only the Warrior energy skills.Sword skills require more energy.

This is the wrong place for you then, this is comment on the skill, not build discussion. And sword skills don't cost more, concussion shot is 25 energy. Perhaps a post in the builds area will find you some information on builds involving flourish for a Wa/Mo.

Xiaxhou of Trinity · Dec 02, 2005, 11:22 PM // 23:22

well since flourish is included in the R/W "Hammer and Anvil" build, how do u compensate for it bieng in a prime W's attribute?(strength) I have a R/W level 20 poisoner/interrupter but i want to make more out of the warrior half. When I saw the Hammer and Anvil build i liked how BM was comboed with hammer skills. But I am presently looking fort he pros and cons to making this build, don't want to waste skill points!! How much does flourish give you if you've got nothing in the strength department? (remember I have a R/W) Well please either leave a response here, to my account on thsi site, or add me and just pm me

Hell Marauder · Dec 03, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by unamed player

Actually you havent really though about why it IS good. First off, i see it as something a sword warrior would want. They have the best damage ENERGY use skills. Now the problem with sword wars is that they run out of energy before ever being able to spam all the energy skills. It would take a good ten seconds to unleash all the skills to begin with so the charge time is perfect. You couple this with a zealous hilt and you pretty much have endless attack damage OVER TIME. Now if you also use tigers fury as a W/R think of how much you can unleash within ten seconds. Take a look at the sword line and see for yourself. Axe wars are all adren..hammer wars too. The only really good damage a sword war can do is with his energy skills. Take along a sever /deep wound and the rest of the skill bar can be used for energy skills. Without rez signet you have 4 (Tigers/Flourish/sever/deep) slots of energy use sword attacks and they ARE quite deadly. Maybe not as much as an eviscerate per say but considering how much more attack you can do within the same time..were talking a decent build. Try it out for yourself.

Order would be Tigers fury followed by sword attack 1/2/3/4/sever/Dwound/flourish

Wash rinse repeat. 4 attack skills are your choice and they all do decent damage.

You are absolutely right, I was a little too rush on my judgement of this skill.

It would work great for a sword warrior with pure strike/seeking blade and can even include power attack in skill bar. I like to play a hammer build with Victory is Mine, but in comparison with Flourish, both have good and bad points. Maybe I'll just modify my hammer build to see if I can make Flourish useful.

It can also be potential useful for an air spiker elementalist, just for its quick recharge utility. As for a melee R/W, I think Victory Is Mine is better because it's tactic based, but Flourish can work too since a sword R/W seldomly run out of energy (with expertise) and its recharge ability can certainly augment the damage.

entropy · Dec 03, 2005, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by unamed player

Actually you havent really though about why it IS good. First off, i see it as something a sword warrior would want. They have the best damage ENERGY use skills. Now the problem with sword wars is that they run out of energy before ever being able to spam all the energy skills. It would take a good ten seconds to unleash all the skills to begin with so the charge time is perfect. You couple this with a zealous hilt and you pretty much have endless attack damage OVER TIME. Now if you also use tigers fury as a W/R think of how much you can unleash within ten seconds. Take a look at the sword line and see for yourself. Axe wars are all adren..hammer wars too. The only really good damage a sword war can do is with his energy skills. Take along a sever /deep wound and the rest of the skill bar can be used for energy skills. Without rez signet you have 4 (Tigers/Flourish/sever/deep) slots of energy use sword attacks and they ARE quite deadly. Maybe not as much as an eviscerate per say but considering how much more attack you can do within the same time..were talking a decent build. Try it out for yourself.

Order would be Tigers fury followed by sword attack 1/2/3/4/sever/Dwound/flourish

Wash rinse repeat. 4 attack skills are your choice and they all do decent damage.

Are you being sarcastic? A sword warriors best damage skills are energy skills? wtf!!! Galrath+final both are better than pathetic pure strike or seeking blade and they don't require energy. Flourish sucks. Its been tested before.

Xiaxhou of Trinity · Dec 04, 2005, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Off topic but for a ranger warrior using an axe; what does edge of extingction do in pvp? Does this damage everyone around it, or only the teammates of the person who died, or everybody around the area? I've thought of this sword use and the hammer, I'd just go with axe and use tiger's fury. Then to the limit, victory is mine, penetrating attack, eviscerate, executioner's strike, and charm animal for pet of course. But the problem with this is there life, cool down times, and sometimes energy. Lol weird for me to post some sort of build barely tested and then point out the cons of it. I'm just playing around with a good build with ranger warrior :P Anybody know of one let me know, so far i can only poison/interrupt. I want to do something close range using warrior weapon masteries.

Sciros Darkblade · Dec 17, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Flourish is not too bad at all, but you really have to be on the ball when it comes to using it with the very quick-recharge skills such as Power Attack (which is a *good* damage boost skill in my opinion).

However, it's sooo much easier to just throw up Warrior's Endurance and spam energy attacks like Pure Strike, Power Attack, and Seeking Blade non-stop (with the occasional Galrath thrown in).

Flourish is probably best used with a Ranger; at least it's not redundant in that case since W.E. won't work.

Monknight Of Ownage · Jan 20, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

I waded through about half those posts and heard nothing about taking the advantage of the recharge time for other classes that need the 10 second restoration. I'm really disapointed. Who the hell cares if warriors find the skill under useful or about using war as main to get the mana bonus? There's plenty of other class skills that do that and do that better. Wanna know why flourish is actually a mega useful skill, oh ye of little faith? Taking a main of a caster, monk for instance, and using this secondary skill to shorten the wait on the mega long recharge skills. For instance: A monk/warrior with AEGIS. lasts 10 seconds with above 12 prot spells, and flourish doesn't require any skill point investment to cast. Say you have wroth's icon and wroth's holy rod, big deal. The enhanced recharge on that doesn't even drop the recharge time within the skill duration, and worse, it's an inconsistant benifit. What my oh my should a monk/warrior do? Cast flourish the second aegis starts blinking and recast aegis. By the time aegis wears off the second time, flourish will be ready again to put it back up. Mana burn you say? Blessed signet clears that right up. You can have high enough divine to cast enchants on yourself or others until you have 15, plus bond + essence bond + bal. spirit on yourself can give you up to 2 mana for every hit your tank or other wise takes during the process. With all that mana recharge at your disposal, blowing off an aegis every 10 seconds should be a sinch. (Trust me, it is, I know. I'm the one that does this stuff.) Just one of the few combos that most people arn't creative enough to come up with. Flourish is actually an awesome skill.

Wait. So I was thinking " Man, maybe I should post some combos. I mean, if all they've come up with is that flourish doesn't work on pet skills, they definitely need to get out more. I'd better help 'em out. " so i WILL. ^O^
7 more ways to use flourish:
1) STANCES. I don't know what they were thinking when someone earlier said that warriors don't find this skill useful. Maybe dumb warriors don't. There's plenty of stances that have huge recast times that make flourish an awesome skill. This works well when going on Oro raids and the tank is bonded. *cough* use it tank *cough* > O > Got Flourish? It does the tanky good. XD
2) Divine Healing. Jee, it only heals 197+ on every ally. Recasting that faster than every 30 seconds wouldn't be that.... use...... wait. Yah. Dang, it would be, wouldn't it? Goodness. Especially with blessed sig to help you recharge, along with life bond + bal. spirit on the tank or otherwise, and other enchants you can cast on yourself or others.
3) Divine Spirit. Makes reversal, gaurdian, healing touch, orison of healing, mend ailment, and other skills 1 mana to cast. lasts 11 seconds. Same principle. The recharge is normally longer than the duration, but not so with flourish. (4 heal others for the price of 2 if you're using sig with this one. Just be creative, there's lots you can do with this)
4) Smite Hex. Convert hexes not so much, since it's 15 mana, but to remove one petty hex more quickly than every 15 seconds can come in quite handy when covering a tank, esepcially when used in conjunction with mend ailment in areas where enemies rely on such tactics. (like in SF raids? yah. like in sf raids.) If you use blessed sig, again, and esssence bond you shouldn't have any problem with casting divine spirit along with this combo to make the casts cheap and even more helpful.
5) Balthazar's arua. Blessed sig can give you the mana to do it, if you're a smiter. Espcially since you have essence bond and other things to give you mana off the tank, and strength of honor to fuel that divine signet restoration. (Which can get as large as 15 without being difficult to maintain.) Not to mention if Flourish restored blessed signet you would be looking at recasting blessed signet over and over in order to get more mana. I think I'll say something about that next.
6) Blessed signet. I don't know if flourish restores signets, but it should. Even if it's recharge is equal to flourish's, flourish basically doubles the cast number for every 10 seconds. If you needed all that mana for firing off huge monk spells, flourish would allow you to cast 2 blessed signets in quick succession, doubling the mana restoration you would gain. Further, if you used it a little bit of the way through blessed signet's restore time and waited 3 seconds to cast blessed sig (sig has a 2 second cast time) you could basically concatenate both skills and recast blessed signet a little slower than every 5 seconds. This wouldn't help alot, but at least the flow of the mana would be constant. In any case, it would be a majorly helpful technique, especially for monks.
7) Necromancers with Minions and warrior as sub. Blood of the master could be casted 2 times in quick succession if in a dire situation. More interesting, vereta's sacrifice normally takes longer to recast than its duration, but with 18 seconds of duration and flourish far less long to recharge, a necro might not even need monk skills to keep their minions alive anymore. (Given they used blood renewal and the like to restore their health after the sacrifices.) A constant vereta's sacrifice and other skills beside, a minion master would be well aided by flourish.

Maybe these arn't perfect, and maybe I left something out. Like the tiger's fury thing I think I read about earlier or something else, flourish may not effect some of these skills, but these ideas are a heckuva lot more creative and usefull than what I've read here so far here. Go try them out and make sure they work, and come up with more ways to use flourish yourselves. Sorry if I missed someone above this post agreeing with me, I didn't read all of them. Hope you guys enjoy these combos and find out if they all work out. If they do, I'm sure they'll shed new light on the power of using this little known warrior technique.

~~~ ps. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. gosh dang ~~~

swordfisher · Jan 22, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

I have to admit, I didn't read much of the last post after I realized the guy had no idea what flourish does. It recharges attack skills. Attack Skills. That is a fairly limited subset that does not include stances, signets, or spells of any sort. Also, because there is technically no recharge on adrenal skills, they're not affected (though I bet if you get an adrenal skill Diversion'd, it'd be recharged). There are a couple odd birds, like Smite, but most of your attack skills are found on Warriors and Rangers.

Now, enough of the bad news, here's the good: Assassins have a lot of energy based attack skills. Lots and lots. They usually recharge in about 12 seconds, and there are a couple 20 and 30 second hits in there too. Flourish works on them, more reliably than Moebius Strike (if=dual strike, if=hit, if=health v50% vs recharge em, sucka), while recharging 2 seconds faster and returning some energy.

So there. A proper defense for what was honestly a rather forgettable skill. (Still is, oh well).

General Typhus · Jan 22, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Assassin skill lineup + flourish ftw!

Monknight Of Ownage · Jan 22, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Eh. Attack skills. That did dawn on me about half way through. ^^;; But I did mention smiting and forgot to mention most of the offensive skills of the necro. Plus flourish recharges the other skills instantly, even though it recharges every 10 seconds. (IE you could go without using it for a long time until you needed to use the same skill twice in a row, or to recharge several at once.) Still a useful skill. Keep thinking outside the box. The prinicple remains the same. : /